nwg

This is the post on Napoleonics site by Legless-Lannes:

how about making these sticky/adding rules to group description and making an announcement about the post of rules?

Certainly worth discussion I think.

Speaking for myself, I'm not keen on the 'no General sniping' rule as Generals can easily be sniped by artillery (or infantry) using auto fire. The other 3 rules mentioned:

1) General as a General Unit
2) No fixed artillery
3) No spikes

Makes sense and I'd be happy with that.

Others got a view on this?

REgards, M.

General as General unit does not matter if done or not done, NO General sniping is impossible to enforce.....the other two "rules" are fine.

I'm not sure there is an "ntw2 Community" as an organised "group"...this is what LM was talking about on and off some while ago - without getting very far.

I agree with you Gun. Its always been my position to -not- try and enforce the General as a General Unit idea, but sometimes I get tired of fighting the tide on this one.

The MRS rules for NTW2 never included a General as a General unit rule, I'd be just as happy to follow this idea with ETW.




True enough, but I read Legless Lannes post over on the [N] forums and its interesting to note that he recognises that the NWG presence on Steam is far and away the largest of the old NTW2 community (plus a lot of new faces also), so he's genuine and is asking for the NWG to comment on his proposal for rules - its worth a read. I think once agreement is made he'd like the rules to get the NWG brand and I can't say I disagree with this as an idea - lets have a good discussion first though (perhaps a poll as well?) then a Panel member might like to go over to the [N] and respond to LL's post.

Regards,
Moo.

Well personally i would be more than happy to go along with all four rules suggested.

No fixed arty is pretty straightforward for all the NTW community i would guess.

No spikes may not be as clear cut, but i think most would agree they are a very silly addition.

Gen as gen i have always liked, it just feels right to me and i have never heard anybody on line ask for anything different.

No gen sniping with arty ? yes i agree its impossible to enforce, but i see it as a gentleman's agreement and very much relevant when new players are joining in.

As an outright idea I've nothing against field fortifications, but the spikes are not set prior to a battle and can be whipped out in no time at all which doesn't seem right to me.

My major problem with them though is that you can't see them unless you place the camera very close indeed...they simply disappear - this is just plain unfair. Wouldn't one expect the cavalry squadron command to negotiate a way around them rather then impaling their men on spikes that they themselves could plainly see?




I can't argue that. I like this arrangement myself, though for a slightly different reason than you (anyone noticed that the ETW general unit is like the latest CB321 one? Tough buggers who can -really- fight!)

However, I really can't see why I'd want to enforce this on anyone. I don't much care what folks want to do themselves as regards the General. If you stick him in an infantry unit you are going to lose all the flexibility that he can provide you by being mobile and if you stick him in a battle cavalry squadron you stand a high chance he'll be killed, so there's a natural trade off which I'm happy enough to see.




I can see the validity of this train of thought, particularly as you say with new players - but you just won't ever know if your general got killed by accident or by a malicious player, you just won't. We struggled through this in NTW2 as well and the arguments were long and sometimes nasty. These days folks mostly won't target your General, but, it has to be said, long experience has also taught most players to keep their Generals well out of the way so perhaps this is at least half the answer.

Last night for instance, in my game against Druid, I watched with dismay as a stray roundshot flew extremely wide after skipping off a hilltop ploughing right into his General unit which was far far to the rear - it certainly did look to me as if I'd specifically targeted the unit, it really did - nothing else was even close to it.

Cheers, M.

Well i don't like the idea of the Gen lining up in the front rank of an infantry line cant remember old boney doing that
I will stick with my opinion on this one as there seems so little if any objection at all to it.




OK i can see your point Moopere,
But having a rule seems like the lesser of two evils for me.
Certainly preferable to giving a free reign to Gen sniping, and again i have not come across any objection to it.
Well except from you mate

Ha! Yes, I understand and agree, but this is not Boney or Welly, its a company game. The so-called 'General' is actually a Regimental Colonel or Brigadier at best!






Heh, I just hate arguing with disappointed players about things that often can't be controlled, it just leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

Despite the good faith that we might discuss this subject with, on the field in the past 'no general sniping' inevitably translates into 'no shooting at the general with anything under any circumstances' which then leads to inventive players using the General as a human shield to advance units into the firing zone. Don't laugh, I've had this happen and more then once, and when I let said General have a taste of my canister the opposing player(s) has been most indignant!

At the end of the day my reasoning is that there would be very few maps, if any where a General unit can't find cover from enemy artillery. If you leave your General in plain view and within range you'll get what you probably deserve whether or not the player specifically targets you or not.

A rule like this invites immediate exceptions, like: Except if your General is within Musket Range, except if the enemy artillery is on auto fire, except if you General is near to a legitimate target, and so on and so forth.

Ultimately I'm not going to get bitter and twisted about this and will go with the majority, but after such a long and difficult time trying hard to use this rule with NTW2 I'm keen we fully discuss it and hack our way to a resolution.

Cheers, M

If you were the prosecuting lawyer and i was defending it wouldn't matter how innocent the poor beggar was they would be facing a long stretch
You get your argument over much better than i ever could

Anyway your honour summing up !
Seems we will have to agree to differ on this one and see what the rest of the folks have to say
Maybe players manners have improved over recent years M i don't remember any nasty gen killing arguments in just under the year that i have been playing NTW.
Mind you there have been a couple of things mentioned by Gunner and others, when i have said don't worry about it will never happen, and in the next couple of days bang there it is

Oh, the weird thing is that I actually agree with you in principle. My argument is based wholly on my perception of what is likely (and does) go on, not what -should- go on ))

Anyway, as I said previously, as my heart is with your side it leaves only my fear to be overcome. Are we going to take the rules as a whole to the vote? I think we should myself even if, as Gunner suggests, we'll only get a small number of folks actually voting.




Its been good lately I agree. But to get to 'the good stuff' we've had to wade through years of argument that sometimes got quite nasty both on and off the field.

Regards, M.

2 of these rules have priority i think. No art and no spikes. The other 2 can also be there but we better keep the rule number at minimum if we plan to post these as -nwg community- rules both on steam group and here.
Maybe poll wont be needed as you mentioned above already, just this discussion topic ll be enough...?Besides nwg is crowded now, maybe easier to set things as rule which are common already like "fix art".

edit: ...just this discussion topic ll be enough...? Besides nwg is crowded now, maybe easier to set things as rule which are common already like "fix art".

I'll set up a poll this afternoon. Its the right thing to do and the NWG membership needs to have the chance to speak (even if only a few will take that opportunity).

Cheers, M.

This is the main reason I'd want as few rules as possible. The "rules" was one of the biggest problems that divided up the ntw2 world, I'd hate to see it repeated again in Empire.

The poll is up for this and will last for about a week - should be long enough, I can make it longer or shorter though if anyone has a strong feeling about it.

Its here:

http://nwg.freeforums.org/1st-cut-preferred-rules-for-etw-t614.html

I'd suggest we put up a notice over on the Steam group for a few days to let NWGers who don't always come here know about it - its going to affect them after all

If no-one objects I'll try and add a note to the front page of the Steam group this evening (I've not done this before though so any Panel members watching, please feel free to help me out).

If we get a strong response to option 5):

"5) Another combination of above (leave a post please), or... none of the above"

We'd probably be best served to have another serious look at comments made and adjust thinking to suit.

Regards, M.

Seems like, there are 2 announcements with the heading "NWG ETW Community rules - vote" on nwg steam group, on purpose or with a mistake?